Santini:

Fraser: Yes.

Santini: So you'll be able to use it in a court of law...

Fraser: Hopefully, it won't come to that. Pete, how long have you been painting? And remember, you are still under oath.

Santini: My dad's been involved in painting my whole life, so I've been around it since I was 5 years old.

Fraser: Was your father also involved in kustom painting?

Santini: Well, he dabbled a bit in the '60s–in the metal flake and kandy days–but that was about the extent of it. His main forté was just clean, straight body and paint work. We've applied the principles of that to the kustom work.

Fraser: Were you always interested in the kustom aspect of painting?

Santini: Being a kid, and being interested in motorcycles, you naturally get involved in the kustom part. Even back in my model car days, I never left anything alone. It was nothing like playing with a stock car still under warranty. I was probably about 15 years old when I started doing stuff on my own. I started out with a couple of Honda 305's. I read every publication I could get my hands on, which was mainly Custom Chopper magazine. I learned from Bill Carter and Bobby VonSol. They had a lot of tech articles back then, just like we do today. An issue would come out with Bobby doing a "lace" job or Bill trying a flame job. I'd say the kustom bug definitely bit me around the age of 15.

Fraser: When did you get your own shop?

Santini: In 1976 or '77. I was about 23 years old. Before that, everything was out of my mom's garage. I had worked from my dad's shop, but when I started to pay rent and show up for work, it was around 1977. My first shop was actually down the street from my current location.

Fraser: What is your favorite thing about the kustom industry?

Santini: It's probably that little part of me that gets to create... starting out with a blank palette and doing something with it, then standing back and saying, "That looks kool." I imagine a large part of it is ego. Let's face it, we're all in this for ego. Heck, I could make more money managing a Cadillac dealership. It's got to be the creativity and the connections. In this industry, you do get to meet some of the biggies. Free race tickets, getting to paint a race car, or meet a rock star. Monetarily, it's not the same, but I guess we're not in it to get rich.

Fraser: There are a lot of people out there in the industry who think you're rich, because you're in the magazines.

Santini: It's kind of aggravating, because you know that people think you're loaded and making twice what you do. I'm still driving a '72 El Camino and an '81 crew-cab, and every week is still a paper chase. It's the old theory. Your hands are only capable of doing so much. There is no machine going "chink-chunk" and making money when you're not there. I don't care how good you are or how much you charge. A $35,000 flawless paint job on a Ferrari going to Pebble Beach may sound like a lot, until you consider the 11 months of dealing with the client and the judges. It is all relative.

Fraser: I've noticed that in dealing with a flawless paint job, the closer you get, the more difficult it becomes. It's nearly an impossible goal.

Santini: When your name is in the limelight, you're expected by the client to be perfect every time, whether they're paying for it or not. That's why I went into the sport truck thing in the late '80s-early '90s. I went through my Ferrari stage and my Porsche stage. I've done the street rod thing, but I really enjoy the trucks and Harleys. You can give them 100%, and they're happy. They don't expect 125%. I've turned down $25,000-$35,000 single-color paint jobs for Oakland–not because I couldn't do it, but because it was not worth the risk factor, getting a $250,000 rod to the show on time and promising the client there would be no problems. I don't want that responsibility anymore. I'm too set in my ways.

Fraser: How would you define yourself as a painter?

Santini: Businesswise and personally, I'm a clean, "streetable," weekend warrior painter. I feel my attention to detail is priority. I can hold my own with just about anyone else in this industry, but I'm also a straight insurance shop, which blows people away. They visit us expecting to see a polished-checkerboard-floor, Boyd Coddington-type shop, and they're a little surprised to find it's just a shop.

Fraser: Do you find yourself painting as much as you like? Every time I call, you seem to be in the booth laying out flames.

Santini: I'm still painting a lot. I wish I was painting more–even the straight stuff, like a single color street rod. If I had the time and energy to do all of the paint work in my shop, I would. As far as the graphic layouts go, I still love applying color, and I do all of the layouts, along with my assistant, Steve DeMan. I don't like clearcoating. Sometimes I have others do that. I don't miss it.

Fraser: Do you have an in-house airbrusher at the shop?

Santini: No, not anymore. For the amount of airbrushing we do here, the in-house airbrusher would also have to be a painter. I have two or three guys that I can call to subcontract. It's not worth having a guy here on payroll.

Fraser: But you do a little airbrushing at the shop, such as fades and effects in your graphics.

Santini: That's basically the extent of my airbrushing. One thing that I wish I had picked up, though, was pinstriping. Growing up in the same neighborhood as Tom Kelly, you'd think I would have learned it. I did pick up certain techniques–such as pounce-patterning and lettering layouts–from pinstripers that have worked for me, but that's about the extent of it. If I could go back in time, I would become a pinstriper and sign painter over a kustom painter, because you buy a little $8 dollar can of One-Shot, and it lasts a year. You can throw it in the back of your truck and make $500 a day lettering and striping for different shops.

Fraser: Do you miss the days of lacquer?

Santini: Not anymore. I did in the early '90s. I was just like everyone else, screaming and hollering that the urethanes were communist paint. Now I challenge people that still like the old paint systems. I won't mention any names, but I had a few old timers, legends in their own right, call me. They'd say, 'This new stuff is junk,' and I'd just answer, 'You haven't tried it yet have you?!' I'd actually challenge them. I'd say, 'Bring over a 1940 Ford, and I'll start on a '40 Ford in my shop. We'll both start a flame job at 9:00 in the morning. I guarantee that by 5:00 the next night, I'll be cleared out, unmasked, and ready for polishing, and you'll still be picking out your tape and sanding out dry pimples.' I do miss the smell and ease of it, but I don't miss the application and overall quality.

Fraser: How many people work for you at the shop?

Santini: Heck, I don't know–whoever comes in the morning. They all have the same name anyway: "I-Don't-Know." Who scratched the truck? "I-Don't-Know." Who lost the truck antenna? "I-Don't-Know." Seriously, I have about five to six guys here. The guys that work for me actually make their own money and pay for the shop, but I earn my own income. The shop still needs my work to keep up financially. It is nice to take off for three or four days to go racing and know the shop is still working under Jeff Beck's supervision.

Fraser: So what type of racing are you into?

Santini: I run what they call a Sports Renault or spec racer–basically, a little open cockpit Can-Am looking car with a 2-liter Renault motor in it. It's good, fun, close racing and cheaper then the kart racing that I was doing. Whether I'm competitive or not, it's still a good three days for me.

Fraser: Did you ever think of really marketing yourself or taking advantage of the name you have already built for yourself in the industry?

Santini: That's why I have a person who is going to help me with marketing in 2000. I should have taken advantage of it five years ago, especially in Japan, when there was Coca Cola and there was Santini. I've had a lot of people approach me. I tell them to run with it and send me a check for 15% at the end of the month. They just never seem to get around to it. It's a lot of talk. We are in the process of establishing a web site. I'm not really that type of business person, so I would welcome someone who is willing to take the ball and run with it.

Fraser: What do you think about the retro craze that's sweeping the kustom industry, with the '50s and '60s cars as the new hot tickets in the kustom painting market? Have you decided to jump on the bandwagon?

Santini: Having Steve Stanford here on the premises helps. Personally, I think it is just great. I see a lot of people thumbing their noses at the black primered kustoms, but I love the cult that is happening. I love the way they are taking a cultural heritage out there and reliving it. Just because they are primered or flame-primered or whatever, it doesn't mean it ain't a kool thing.

Fraser: What would you recommend to keep your painting fresh?

Santini: You can always go back and study some of the classic designs, but you should be careful about looking only to the automotive industry for inspiration.

If you just use automotive magazines as your influence, then everything will start looking the same. You need to look towards other areas of art, whether it's album covers, clothing–whatever. For example, Stanford came out with the heartbeat symbol in the '80s, thinking it would be a kool graphic. I then took it and made it into a softer tube graphic. You take your input and adapt it to your own style and taste. You can't be closed-minded towards anything, but you do want to stay away from fads. One sign that you are a true innovator is when you can bring out your work from ten years ago, and you're not ashamed to show it today. You have people like Bill Carter out there, who can take one of his paint jobs from the '70s and '80s, put it on a car now, and it still kicks ass. To me, that spells out "hero." Not trendy bandwagon stuff.. stuff that is timeless.

Fraser: Which painters do you feel have had the most influence on you and your style?

Santini: Bill Carter has probably been the most influential painter of the kustom painting era, next to Larry Watson. Other influences in my life were people like Molly out here in California, Dick Vale, Art Himsel and Bobby VonSol. Back east, Circus Paint did incredible work on dragsters and race cars. The list goes on. We all learn from our heroes. There has always been somebody somewhere doing something outstanding.

Fraser: Do you have much competition in the industry, with all the kustom painters here in California and new guys popping up everywhere?

Santini: Throughout the industry, you're going to have the gunslingers, and they always have the same threats. 'Hey, there's somebody new around the corner charging $1,100 for a paint job, they're going to take over my kustom paint business.' Big deal. Veteran painters like Dick Vale and I are still here–it really hasn't affected us at all. I've survived dozens of others simply by being a businessman, by giving my customers what they want. My shop is in what is probably one of the most heavily populated areas of kustom painters in the world. There are five top painters within 15-20 minutes of each other. Nobody is starving, and none of us are cutting each other's throats. That's pretty much the way it has always been in this industry. Most of the supposed animosity between top painters is just rumor.

Fraser: In closing, what type of advice could you give an aspiring young painter looking to get into the kustom automotive industry?

Santini: Become a manager of a Mercedes dealership. Seriously, you've got to love it to do it. Focus on making the customer happy, and don't take on customers who you can't please. If you're looking for money, get into the straight industry of refinishing and insurance work. If you love the ego and creativity, then go with the kustom.